smallest 32 make up 1a, biggest 32 make up 5a, then divide the rest equal. I think thats a great idea!

thoughts

Do you mean the biggest 32 make up 6A? I'd be for that and I think that is the direction the IHSAA is going toward. I saw on Gridiron Digest that the IHSAA recently voted that football didn't have to have an equal amount of teams in each class. (sorry I couldn't find the source...anyone have a link?)

One proposal is that teams in 6A and 1A, since their playoffs would only have 5 rounds instead of 6, is that they would get a 10th regular season game. This would be played while Classes 2A through 5A are in their first week of sectionals.

For a while it looked like the 320 magic number would be reached, forcing a 6th class, but with several schools closing around the state, this probably won't happen anytime soon. However, I think many want a 6th class anyway...it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Rudy

Rudy,

I just don't know how I feel about six classes. I'd rather see the smallest schools play(32 teams) and the 32 biggest schools make up 5a. What this will do is put Mater Dei and Perry Central in the same sectionl and Memorial and Jasper in the same sectional. The numbers game hurts the schools with 100 kids playing the schools with 390 kids in 1a and the 5a schools like North with 1400 kids playing Warren Central with 4,000. So lets keep 5 classes and just give the top seeded schools in the new 1a and 5a a first round by. I know the 1a schools and 5a schools wouldn't play as many games to win a state title, but at least they would be playings schools their own size. I think the difference most years between the 2a and 3a champs is very little. I don't want six classes because that just makes it to easy to win state. Not everybody deserves a trophy. if we go to six classes, it will take some of the glory out of it.

You're right...the more classes you have, the more state champs you have. The prestige of winning a state title is slightly diminished with the addition of a class. However, logistically speaking, having 32 in 1A and 5A and splitting the rest up just doesn't work.

There are approximately 315 schools now. 32 in 5A and 1A would leave 251 schools to split between 4A, 3A and 2A at 83.67 per class. That would necessitate the addition of a 7th round to the postseason (33 to 64 teams=6 rounds of playoffs, while 65 to 128 teams=7 rounds).

I agree about the enrollment difference between too out of whack at the top, but the only logical way to fix it is to add a sixth class or have it so not every school qualifies for the playoffs.

Just my two cents.

Rudy

Qaulification will work except I can't tell you how many times MD has had 0 and 8 1 and 7 3 and 5 teams that have made it all the way to the semi-state. Teams like Luers and Mater Dei who could potentioly be the best teams in their class would be left out of the playoffs so a team like Monrovia or Paoli would make it with a better record. I like the idea of having all teams in the playoffs. It will just be to hard to argue over who desereves to make it. It be no different then the big siac pissing matches you read over on the gridiron.

Not sure if their is a perfect solution. And if you think about it. In the last 15 years you've had Castle beat Carmel in 94, North beat Ben Davis in 95 and Harrison beat Ben Davis in 98 and lost to them by 3 in 1997. So I don't know if this major enrollment domination issue is getting worse or has gotten worse in the past 10 years(obviously we've had our struggles with the Center Grove's and Ben Davis's temas) but in all honesty Rudy when you were in school the SIAC was the top conference in the state(or top 3 at least) 1993-1998 give or take. I don't know how to explain the fall off from Evansville's 5a powers.

big 8 vs siac pissing matches is what I was trying to say

I hear ya...it's very cyclical. In 1995 us and North were both highly ranked in 5A, and Harrison was always right there too. Castle too. The SIAC was down for a while but it's back up now, especially with Reitz and Memorial having four appearances in the last three years. I would argue that the SIAC is one of the top conferences in the state...maybe not in the top 3 but top 5 for sure.

I think it goes without saying that the Metropolitan is king right now, but what other leagues would be up there? Where does everyone think the SIAC ranks now?

Rudy

I lived in the Indpls-area during much of the '80s-'90s after graduating from Reitz and IMO several things occurred in Indpls during that timeframe that would help explain the fall off between the rest of the state and Indy. Basically, a sleeping giant was awakened with the Indy schools that hadn't been present prior to the '80s-90s:
1. The increase in # of football classes and the origination of class basketball, baseball, volleyball, etc split up the Indy schools such that they weren't eliminating each other as early and as often. It gave many of the schools more confidence and belief that they had more & better opportunities to advance, and they subsequently sank more resources into their sports programs. Prior to "classed" basketball and baseball, the Indpls regional consisted of four 8-team big-school sectionals. There may have been a dozen high-quality schools in that group but only one could advance due to the setup (conversely the Evansville regional consisted of, in addition to a normally tough Evansville sectional, a 4-team sectional of all small schools from Vincennes and two 6-team sectionals in Princeton and Boonville that included tiny schools such as New Harmony, Tecumseh, Wood Memorial, etc). It was extremely more difficult to advance deep out of Indy than it was in other parts of the state and thus they didn't sink as much effort/$$/resources into and didn't have the tradition behind it since it was rare that any team would advance multiple consecutive years. Cathedral or Roncalli, Chatard, & Speedway would formerly have all been in the Marion Co. bloodbath regional but now with class sports they're in different classes and can advance on their own without having to beat the mega-schools.

2. Population shifts occurred in the '80s-90s such that Indpls and suburbs were booming with new jobs and new population - and many schools went from being small to big and the ones that were somewhat big already became huge. Fishers in the early '80s was a small settlement of 1500 people and their small high school Hamilton SE played in the 1981 state finals.....in 1A. Now Fishers has 70,000 population and two 5A high schools. Zionsville was 3A for years with a 700 enrollment until some mega-subdivisions were built and now Z'ville has 400 more students than Reitz and is squarely in 5A. Even as late as the mid-'90s (when the EVSC schools were up around 1600) there were no Indiana schools greater than 2800 enrollment. Now Ben Davis is approaching 4500, Carmel is over 4000, Warren Central is 3650, etc. Meanwhile employment elsewhere in the state, Evansville included, and especially the automaker towns, went stagnant and lost population and school enrollment. Whereas Anderson, Marion, and Muncie Central formerly lead the basketball scene, Gary Roosevelt won state in track 10 years in a row, Logansport and LaPorte were baseball powers, those towns all faded and the sport powerhouses became Indpls metro and suburban schools in their place. The number of big schools with big city opportunities for camps, workout programs, and of course tough schedules, not to mention high extra-curricular participation rates particularly in suburban schools has encouraged an arms race so to speak and to be successful at the highest echelon a lot of sport-specialization to take place. Yet the sport-specialization in Indy has not hurt their other sports having so many kids to go around who specialize in something different. In Evansville and other parts of the state it seems we either have athletes spread into different sports and thus not state-ranked at any of them, or all the athletes play one sport only, to the detriment of the other sports. For example Zionsville had an 8-3 football record last year playing all 5A opponents, yet still were ranked in the state's top 15 of all the other boys fall sports tennis, soccer, and cross country. Castle I believe is the only public school to have ever won the SIAC all-sports and they usually do pretty well at other fall sports soccer, tennis, etc but it seems their football is just mediocre for 5A. When Bosse does well at basketball they have nothing in terms of a wrestling program. Same for many up-north schools. I could be wrong but I'm not sure I ever remember an EVSC school being ranked in two boys sports in the same fall, winter, or spring season.

3. Inner-city busing all over Indpls was significantly curtailed in the '90s which allowed high schools to much more accurately identify who their athletic prospects were going to be via their feeder schools and develop strong feeder programs. Previously there was a lot of movement of the urban kids from one school to another based on which bus they'd catch or which teacher they didn't like, and it was hard to develop program loyalty, unity, chemistry, etc if you never knew until grade 9 who was going to attend where - thus most of the high schools did not run school-based feeder football programs until the mid-90s instead relying on Parks & Rec leagues to develop football players. Now all of the 5A Indy schools have school-based grade-specific teams starting in 3rd or 4th grade (playing in school-based leagues vs other high school named teams) learning the high school's terminology and system. Meanwhile Harrison and North are still relying as they did 20 years ago on the eastside Lakeview Optimist league or the group over at Kleymeyer Park to develop their players. For now it seems Reitz is ok with EJFL but if you look at what Center Grove or Warren Central is doing with their youth football, there is a substantial difference. Of course Reitz can't develop a school-based something on their own as they'd need other opponents to play so it has to be a concerted effort with multiple local bigger schools. As EVSC moves toward enrollment however, it seems less likely that any school-based feeder program will happen here, as we're trending Indy in the '70s-80s where you don't know who you'll have until 9th grade and you can't run school-based cub teams if your freshmen players are going to come from Oak Hill, Washington, or McGary.

Sorry for the length but like I said having lived there at the time and having some involvement with youth sports, it was interesting to see how things evolved in attitudes, resources, and methodology and when considering these factors and perhaps several more, it is explainable as to what happened.

Castle has also gone to the school based feeder league in an attempt to keep up with the Indy schools in that aspect. While their youth football program (1st and 2nd, 3rd and 4th, 5th and 6th grade levels) is "public", they do not accept players from Vanderburgh Co, or the Boonville area to play in the league. They start working with them on what they will be using in high school in the lower tackle program, to give them a jump on 7th and 8th grade, and advance it from there. It takes years to build up, but it is a worth while endeavor.